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we begin this hour with the real world consequences of donald trump the tax. as we document it, toby is a social media in his campaign rallies two of the prosecutors and judges involved in his many legal problems. at the start of this week, judge merchan expanded the gag order in the criminal hush

money case after trump repeatedly attacked the judges daughter. here is my actions like that need to be taken seriously. this week, a new york man was charged with sending death threats to new york attorney general letitia james and judge engoron. tyler vogel threatened them with death and physical harm. former capitol police officer harry dunn joins us at the table. good to see you. this is the world donald trump is right. i do not understand, i fundamentally do not understand why the american people do not respond better in moments like this. instead of leaning into or outright ignoring a lot of this hot rhetoric that donald trump is spewing that is resulting in death threats. you know firsthand having lived through january 6th what that is like.

how come from that time to this time, it hasn't gotten better, it's gotten worse? >> it is scary. try to figure out the logic behind it too. a lot of times donald trump thinks his words are just words. you know, the whole when he talked about, when he linked it to the auto industry and is comments there. >> the bloodbath >> he knows what he's doing. majority of people sit there and say that is wrong but he knows there's these few that will do, like you just said, death threats to letitia james and the visuals that will take a different really like they did on january 6 and when they attacked the capitol that day. there were people there that were peaceful. there were a lot of people there that were violent. those are the individuals he speaking to, just enough. >> i think about, i'm getting ahead of myself but let's say you went. there are so many republicans who will get reelected to say

january 6 doesn't matter, constituents don't care about it, you are making such a big deal, what do you say to those people, are you hearing folks talk about it, your constituents talk about it? why do you want to work with people who are against the reality? >> as a member of the congress, after having protected the very people who turned their back, was it weird are being their coworker or weirder being responsible for protecting them while they are diminishing what he went through? >> we are three years removed from it. for three years, even after january 6th, i was still responsible for protecting these individuals. why? because the institutions are with it. the institutions are with protecting in they need strong people that will stand up and fight for them. that is what i plan to do in congress. it is very important that we send our best people there that

actually believe in it. like i said, people that denied january 6, they denied it and donald trump started calling people hostages. they are leaning into that rhetoric. now january 6th is a big deal but it is only a beta because donald trump says it is a big deal. >> i'm so glad you brought that up. the hypocrisy is incredible to watch them going from january 6th, just a normal tour of the capitol, what do you mean? now january 6, you take a people, they are hostages. release them. it is so much more about just the date of january 6th and what happened, it is about democracy, protecting these institutions, sending good people to serve in these institutions. how do you talk to voters about these big, almost not ambiguous but just kind of big picture topics that people might roll their eyes at glaze over? >> january 6, like you said, democracy is more than just january 6th. credibility serves two purposes. it brings restitution or healing to those that were aggrieved and also it provides a deterrence to keep things from happening again. accountability has not been had at the highest level yet so

there is nothing preventing january 6 from happening again. >> that's so important. >> u.s. the question about people in the community, democracy is the bigger issue here. there are so many things at stake right now. we talk about women's reproductive rights and safety, all of that stuff doesn't matter if we have a dictator in the white house that can do whatever he wants to do. all of those issues that we talk about that democrats are fighting hard for those would even be an issue if we have a dictator in the white house. >> people talking about the economy and gdp. it matters but what is gdp is a dictator is president of the united states? what is gdp being up if literally a woman can't make a decision about her own body? i'm talking about the inmates there. are talking about the institutions and the

institutions are only as strong as the people who support them. democracy is only as strong as the people who fight to defend it. and, who work to defend it. think about these folks who have tried to stand up to donald trump in terms of our systems like our legal and judicial system and is threatening judges, is threatening judge merchan's daughter. he straightened the lawyer, is threatening the president of the united states of america. he is whipping up this vitriol that people have acted on. >> not only that, i mean, sure but we need our judges to step up. i appreciate what judge merchan is doing. even over at the supreme court, we need more people in positions of authority to hold people accountable to do their jobs. it can't just be talking heads on the news where people that are aggrieved about what he's doing, we need people in authority, the institutions are only as strong as the individuals that are serving in

them. they've got to do something. we only, we as a nation only have ourselves to blame if donald trump is elected again. it feels like this institutions, the courts, the people that are responsible, they have been failing us up to this point. >> how do your fellow officers, we talked about this before in the context of the impact it has on the men and women that you serve with. now watching several of your fellow officers who said i can't do this anymore or has moved on to other things, you are stepping into a leadership role running for congress, how does that read to them? what is there takeaway from a campaign like yours? or, even some of their other fellow officers who have said you know what, i can't do this anymore, i cannot, can i protect the people who would

protect me? >> i can appreciate that. i consider myself crazy for wanting to join this institution of congress. >> self-awareness. >> but, it is crazy. the message is we have to do something. obviously running for congress is a huge step but people might say i can't do this anymore, we can't sit on the sidelines idly by. that is my message. we have to do something. like i just said, we only have ourselves to blame if donald trump is elected. >> there is a lot of truth in that. i still come back to how the american people process all of this, how they see january 6th. do you really see these insurrectionist as hostages, are you biting the rhetoric out of donald trump's mouth when he is out here referring to j6

praying grandma as being targeted by the duke doj and facing when you represent for peacefully walking around the capitol. america, you do not get arrested for peacefully walking anywhere. >> unless you are black. >>, on. >> certainly not on the capitol steps. that is what we are up against here. that is what you are up against. not just as a candidate for office but as someone who served the institution inside the institution. you still, again, going back to your fellow officers who remain there working every day faithfully honoring their oath and commitment to serve, protect, and defend, right? this is what they are up against. this kind of crazy nonsense. >> no pushback against it equals a win for them.

that is why we have to continue to speak out and push back and collect it for what it is. you need people who are continually pushing back. as long as a counter narrative is out of there, you have to have people that are out there to continue to be truth tellers about what happened that day. as long as that is still going on, i will continue fighting for it. >> everyday. >> one quick question, republicans love to claim that they care about law and order and police officers, did you have a different view of republicans and how they viewed police officers and law and order before january 6th ? >> that whole back the blue, that is a slogan. show me through what you do on a day-to-day, show me in your voting, show me how you phoned the police and to those issues, show me that way, not just by putting a backs up to #on your twitter profile. it is way more to it than that. it is like telling me about it,

show me. >> you, harry dunn, or a patriot. thank you for coming this morning. good to see you. >> thank you all. coming up , donald trump's latest attempt to get the charges dismissed it as classified documents cases been denied, for now. mary mccord joins the weekend after a quick break to break it all down. all down. it's fineeeeeeee! [splash] before advil: advil dual action fights pain two ways. advil targets pain at the source, acetaminophen blocks pain signals. advil dual action. ava: i was just feeling sick. and it was the worst day. mom was crying. i was sad. colton: i was diagnosed with rhabdomyosarcoma. brett: once we got the first initial hit, it was just straight tears, sickness in your stomach, just don't want to get up out of bed. joe: there's always that saying, well, you've got to look on the bright side of things. tell me what the bright side of childhood cancer is.

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this week. the judge rejected the pretrial claim that he had the right to keep the document under the residential records act. the judge still insists he could side with trump at some point in the future special counsel jack smith has pushed can and the street her stance on the issue. is now is everything busy legal analyst mary mccord. she is the host of a really amazing podcast here at ms nbc, "prosecuting donald trump." the reason why jack smith was so enraged is a good descriptor about what judge aileen cannon duties she is setting up a scenario where she's not going to tell the people what she thinks about the things and a trial happens, which could potentially result in a, an

opportunity where the trial has to go away and then donald trump cannot be retried for the same crime. break it down for us here. donald trump got slapped down by canon but is there something else going on in the background? >> is basically a two paragraph order in the first paragraph is where she says i'm denying mr. trump's motion to dismiss this case on the grounds that the indictment fails to state an offense based on his argument that under the presidential records act, and significance is personal. therefore he had authorized access, authorized possession of the classified documents. but, she says i'm also denying what she mischaracterizes as jack smith's requests for a definitive and final instruction. that is what his request was. so, what you end up doing is leaving open the vehicle question. the whole thing that jack smith had asked her to do is resolve the legal question. the legal question is does the presidential records act give

mr. trump a defense to the charges against him because of judge cannon's belief that if the president while president designates things as personal, that means his position of it is authorized. if you have authorized possession, that means you don't have unauthorized possession, that means you can't be guilty of retaining unauthorized retention of classified information. jack smith's point is presidential records act has nothing to do with these charges. this is the point that she is refusing to the site. the reason why that is so important is because if she leaves that to the trial and then the science this could be a defense, it could be, as you indicated, jeopardy will have attached, she could grant a motion for judgment of acquittal on her own or she could send an erroneous instruction to the jury, which would essentially be a directed verdict for mr. trump. that is what i think it is

incumbent upon jack smith to use whatever avenues are available to try to get the 11th circuit to review that legal, her refusal to make that legal decision. if i were him, i would push this with a motion to >> mary, the whole reason we even got to a trial is because the folks, in layman's terms, the archivists, they found out they were missing documents. they repeatedly tried to get them back from donald trump. he refused. they figured out he was keeping some potentially very sensitive things and they told the justice department. they told the lawyers and political people. they got engaged and involved, they found out donald trump was lying to them. they went out to mar-a-lago to get the stuff because they are like we really don't know what is going on here, found all these boxes in the toilet area and that is how we got to where we are right now. what is the judge, what is the judge have to wait in on if this is a defense or not? obviously the presidential records act, the archivists, the folks who are charged with

shepherding and protecting the archives, they don't think it is protected because they told the justice department something potentially criminal was happening. >> there's a couple points to pull apart. one is factually, this is something jack smith tells judge cannon in his pleading last week. factually, mr. trump ever even claimed during all the process you just described that he had designated these records is personal. he did return 15 boxes to the archivists on his own. he didn't say these are personal, not have to return them. he also, when he was subpoenaed for records, he didn't move to quash the subpoena saying these are personal, he had his

attorney, evan corcoran, provider 37 more documents to the department of justice. when there was a search warrant, right, that was executed finding all of the boxes, like you indicated, including the bathroom area, he didn't say these are personal. he, this is a made-up argument after the fact, after the former head of judicial watch tweeted about you should argue these are personal. this is one of the things chuck smith sets out. the other point i think it's important based on what you just said is the definition of personal and presidential records is so clear that classified documents could never be personal because personal has to be purely personal and not related to the president's duties to carry out his constitutional, statutory, official or ceremonial duties. classified documents, by their very nature, that the disclosure of which could cause danger, serious danger or exceptionally grave danger to the national security, how could that ever be anything other than documents that are provided to the president in order to carry out his official and constitutional and statutory duties? >> here's the rub at the end of the day, at the end of all of this -- >> you just made your point. >> at the end of all of this,

right, it boils down to one thing, what we have happening here debating whether it is jack smith and eileen cannon or pick a case because trump has a lot of them out there so just pick one, this slows the process down. this is all about avoiding the filing of pretrial motions would have to be completed before the case can proceed, this is coming up the works. all of this stuff, folks, is great law school fodder because at the end of the day, the american people could give a rats butt about whether or not it is classified documents or this or that. it is well beyond their focus. for donald trump, all that matters for him is i get to slow this roll down, i get to get closer to my election where i'm going to win and when i win, i'm dictator for a day and i make all of this go away. yes, i rent it. that is exactly how simple it

is. >> i think, you know, to that point, judge cannon had, this is not the only not fully resolved question in front of her. there are many pending motions in front of her that she hasn't ruled on. when she rules, which he does and she avoids making a final ruling. she sort of leaves something to the trial, which is exactly what you did here, which means that jack smith can't appeal because there's no final order so he has to think about another way to get in front of the court, delay, delay, delay. she also, remember, march 14th or march 1st, supposedly had her hearing to set a trial date. we still have no trial date. so, you are right, the delay works very much to the benefit of mr. trump, which is exactly what he wants. >> what he wants. mary, stick around. there's more delay we have to

get into. we want to discuss another legal setback for trump, this time in the georgia election interference case and we will talk about it right here on the weekend. weekend.

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a big setback for trump in the georgia election interference case this week. judge scott mcafee has denied trump's bid to have the case dismissed based on free speech grounds. in his 14 page ruling, the judge said first amendment concerns should be raised during the trial, not before it. mary mccord is back with us. >> mary, i think we are having whiplash, we are going between these different trials, there's different decisions, decisions that are not quite been made. how do you see the severity or the challenges trump faces in the georgia case compared to the classified documents case? >> it definitely seems to be on more of a slow track right now. we have no trial date set, we don't even have, we have trump spending appeal of the decision not to disqualify fanni willis.

essentially, this was mr. trump and others saying all of these counts in the indictment, all of the acts charged as part of the rico conspiracy involved our speech and we have a right to speak. this is core political speech and we can't be prosecuted. what the judge said is what every prosecutor who's ever prosecuted any case knows is when your speech is the scene of the crime, which is the case when you are talking about conspiracies and fraud and this basically is a case about fraud, fraud is committed using your speech, using your words. that is an exception to first amendment protection. if that weren't the case, think about how many crimes couldn't be prosecuted because speech is often integral to the commission of crimes, particularly crimes like those alleged here, like fraud. >> if that is the case, then, why are we seeing this sort of bending over backwards to

enforce gag orders? you have judge scott mcafee, with respect to core political speech on page 8 of his brief, even corporate, speech addressing matters of public concern is not impenetrable from prosecution if allegedly used to further criminal activity, to the point just made. so, why do we find judges having such a hard time to say okay, here's the line, you've crossed it, shut up. >> ultimately, both judge merchan and judge chutkin ordered gag orders. this is really judges are saying, look you do have first amendment rights to political speech, mr. trump that you don't have rights to impact and influence the demonstration of justice, the jury, threaten

witnesses so that about the substance of their expected testimony, threaten potential jurors, threaten judges or their staff, court staff, prosecutors, their staff and family members. when you are facing trial, the courts have held, the supreme court concluded that limitations on your speech can be ordered in order to protect the administration of justice. what we see in the judges do is grapple between we have a candidate here who is a defendant who obviously is entitled to campaign, he's entitled to engage in political speech as part of that campaign so where is that line? and, judge merchan has found mr. trump, i'm ordering you not to cross the line. the d.c. circuit from the same thing, judge chutkan from the same thing. even though these are infringements on his right to

speech, they are lawful and consistent with the first amendment. >> on page 8, judge scott mcafee writes "the court finds the defendant's motion to inspect or alleged to have been made in furtherance of criminal activity and constitute false statements knowingly and willfully made in matters within a government agency's jurisdiction, which threatened to deceive and from the government. i think those are some of the strongest words i've heard yet from judge scott mcafee specifically. what is your read on judge scott mcafee and how he is handling this georgia election interference case? i mean, we all sat through that very salacious televised soap opera of da fanni willis and whether she had violated ethics and was going to be disqualified. how do you think he is handling this? these are strong words. >> i do think he's trying to just address each motion in front of him, assess what the facts are, apply the law to the facts, which is what we want from every judge. i think, you know, in the

disqualification of fanni willis, his resolution ultimately i think it's something various people could quarrel with but is a reasonable resolution. he added some language to his order that i think you know, one can reasonably say he didn't need to add, sort of like the odor of mendacity i think was the phrase he used to refer to the relationship between ms. willis and nathan wade. his rulings have been, by and large, you know, legally supportable, solid rulings. this one is a perfect example of this. this is, of course, the correct result. even though he says there are some things we would wait for trial on, is not suggesting that suddenly all of the statements made in furtherance of the commission of the charged crimes would suddenly become protected speech. there could be certain aspects of things that come out like certain facts about certain particular speech that come out at trial that might in

individual examples be protected. that is what he's saying about some of this we have to wait for trial on. he's made the definitive ruling. when your speech is core to your fraud, the conspiracy here, the false statements, there are written false statements, right, false statements about the certification of the electoral ballots by the fraudulent electors, these are things that go, that are being presented falsely to the government in a matter within the government's jurisdiction to the point that you read. that is a solid legal ruling. >> it's like the opposite. >> don't just write a gag order, gag him. >> and put him in jail. >> i am with michael steele. >> we will be on the internet shortly i'm sure. mary mccord, always a pleasure. you can get much more of mary on "the prosecuting donald trump podcast" from msnbc. in the latest episode, mary and andrew weissman set the tone of what to expect in the hush

money trial. the podcast is great. i am a regular listener. get your smartphone out and get your ipad, open the camera, scan the qr code on your screen. you can listen right now. pick it up, you have it right there. i know it is next to the cereal, next to the coffee, get it, listen to mary and andrew weissman, they are great. had, we have more because the biden campaign says florida could be winnable after two state rulings on reproductive rights this week. that is next on the weekend. we. . baby: liberty. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ you wanna know how i get this glow? i get ready with new olay indulgent moisture body wash. it smells amazing and gives my skin over the top moisture. from dull to visibly glowing in 14 days. ♪♪ see the difference with olay.

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to this. with just one step tresemmé silk serum. time for the ultimate humidity test. weightlessly smooth hair your turn. new tresemmé keratin smooth collection. welcome back. democrats suddenly have a sunnier outlook about their 2024 prospects in florida after a pair of rulings from the state supreme court this week. the court allowed florida's six week abortion ban to take effect in 30 days but the court will also allow us to have the final say on the matter in november with a proposed ballot amendment that would enshrine

abortion protections in the state's constitution. with us now is democrat fentrice driscoll , minority leader in the florida house of representatives. and mini timmaraju is with us in washington, d.c., president of reproductive freedom for all. this was quite a week in florida. and, how do you assess the, i guess the conversation around abortion, ivf now in light of what we see the courts having done in florida? i think a lot of people, quite honestly would have thought it's florida, this issue is not going to get on the ballot, voters won't have a say here, the court said no. this issue should be part of the conversation. you still have the before times, where you have this limit, the six week limit. >> it was a definite decision by the court. on one hand, they are like we are going to let the six week can go through, which is a

reminder before most people know they are pregnant. it is extreme, it is basically a total abortion ban but we are going to split the difference here and make sure people get to vote. what i will say is taking a step back, abortion rights activists in the state of florida have been working on this initiative for over a year and before anyone at the national level. florida was winnable, they believed it because they were paying close attention to the other states where independents and republicans were crossing over to support abortion rights. they knew ron desantis overplayed his hand, they knew the legislature was extreme and the belief that this could happen. kudos to them first but yes, now it does seem to make florida more in play because the six week abortion ban is so extreme and the grunt work has been done. i think something like 15% of the signatures to qualify for the ballot initiative came from republicans. 25% of them came from unaffiliated voters. that work is important. >> follow-up, with the organizers have a say in how

the language on the ballot is set or is that something that will be done by the court? that matters in terms of how voters process yes or no on the question. >> the court has a lot to do with it. the decision indicates that but i would love to hear from our friend in the state who might know a little more of the details. >> minority leader fentrice driscoll, please pick up where michael steele and mini timmaraju left off. what is the language that will be on the ballot and what do you make of the national conversation now spotlighting florida? the point about how local leaders have been at the forefront of this, and the subject effort from that is they should continue to be at the forefront of this so what say you? >> yes, so the language has been set. that is what the court's ruling on monday was about. it is very simple language. it asks voters whether or not there should be limited government interference in very

personal medical decisions that are of the heart and the home. that is what i think was on the crossover with the signing of the petitions and so many republicans and independents were willing to sign these petitions because it is not a republican issue or a democrat issue, it is a human issue, it is a health care issue and organizers have been able to frame it as such, which matters. to your second point your second question, symone, about what would make the national conversation? i will tell you that i think they are right, i think florida is in plano. the simple fact that this language is on the ballot is not enough to drive turnout. i want to be clear about that. what it does is it gives us an opportunity to talk to voters clearly about issues that matter to them. in january, we had a special election here in central florida and i was able to lead a team with the florida house democrats took the receipt from red to in a special section. it's the first time that was done since 2018 in conjunction

with the party in the donor alliance and the coalition groups, it was amazing. the way we won that race was talking about abortion. it immediately, the republican candidate, there is a clear tension between he wants to protect our freedom and wants to take away and we were able to win 70% of independent voters in that election are talking to them about the issues that matter to them, which are a far ability, florida is having an affordability crisis, and abortion. >> i want to play for you some sound from president trump on abortion. a reporter asked him a question. let's take a listen to his response. >> should be prepared, could that be a change in position question >> not a change in position, it will be something that is very important. you may have to go with your heart, you have to go with your spirit and it's going to be something that i don't think people will be overly surprised. we have to win elections. it's very important, you have to win elections. otherwise, you go back to where

you were. >> can we just say that that was a word salad is absolutely nothing? you have to win elections. i will get to that point. it's going to be something that is very important, you know, you have to go with your heart. donald trump, where is your heart on abortion? that is the question i would have as a follow-up. then you end it, he ends it with you have to win elections, otherwise you go back to where you were. you have to win elections tells me are you liking now or are you going to lie later about your position on abortion? how do those who are advocating for reproductive health for women transfixed the language of trump so voters really understand what this man is telling them? he's basically going to lie to voters about what republicans are going to do on this issue because it's going to come and say oh no, we are not going to

impose a national ban, we are going to do 16 weeks. he knows that's not what is space once. how do the advocates help force the reconciliation between trump and his base at the same time, making it very clear this man is going to lie to you about what he's going to do? >> the most effective thing that can be done, and i give a lot of credit to the biden/harris campaign for doing this. we saw hands that just rolled out, is play back his words. the most effective message is the one from donald trump's mouth, where he brags about overturning roe v. wade, takes a lot of gleeful credit for it, and the clip where he talks about punishing patients and doctors. those are the two most effective messages with the electorate. we assume as advocates that everybody knows this but a lot of folks haven't filed yet. just hammering home donald trump in his own words is critical strategy for one. and, this is our job as advocates to help credentialed the president and vice president and to say he are all of the things the biden/harris administration have done.

that gets lost. we have a supreme court oral argument in a couple of weeks about defending the biden administration's effort to use regulations for emergency of care to protect women in states with the bands. that is a big deal. we have to talk more about it and make sure folks understand it is not just donald trump is dangerous and a liar and he rant about overturning roe v. wade and will do it again through nonecongressional means but that joe biden support you,, harris supports and they are for best line of not just defense but going back to codifying a federal right in roe v. wade. >> it is super important we are talking about the efforts to protect access to abortion. as you both know well, republicans are going after mifepristone, ivf, your ability to have a family, your ability to decide if you want to have kids, do you both think the pro-choice, pro-abortion, pro- reproductive rights movement is

keeping up with those who are anti-family-planning, anti-all of the things ? i think about how republicans took over state legislatures over the course of 10 years and had this very deliberate strategy that democrats missed and still suffer from. do you think that your folks nationally on the ground are matching what republicans are doing in terms of how much they are focused on all of these different things? >> i will say that the reproductive freedom movement, pro-choice movement, pro- abortion access movement has been raising the alarm about this takeover of legislatures, pushing democrats to take firmer positions on abortion access for decades. we saw a sea change in 2016 when the party platform actually changed to support many of these positions like illuminating the hyde amendment, limitations on federal funding for access to abortion. it has been a long time coming. what i will say is the democratic legislative campaign committee, the democratic governors association, they are

meeting right now, democratic attorney generals have taken really from positions and led the way in the states and it is very, very important partnership for us now and it has been critical in shifting the site. >> to your point, why governors matter so much. >> minority leader fentrice driscoll, we will give you the last word on this. you are in a place , remember the last elections in florida? people don't florida off, they said florida is unwinnable. kratz in the state like yourself, and the state party chair, have kept at it and you talked about the gains in flipping a seat in the state legislature, not to mention flipping a seat in the mayor of jacksonville, what is your message to folks, and we look forward to the summer and then the general election in the fall and november? >> my message simply is that is winnable. we have been building the momentum to this proof of concept, starting with that my your race and then the special

election and now having this little language in november is essential. it shows us that democrats have a pathway to talk to the voters about what they want to talk about, which we know is essential to turn out. i also say, i mean, look, florida has 29 electoral votes. we need florida. saving our state helps to save our country because we need a state as large as florida to be able to flip and help secure american democracy. i feel that this is no longer just about making sure democrats win. it is protecting our democracy. it is essential. i know i will be doing all i can on the ground in coalition with the state party donors and everyone to make sure that we make a strong showing for the biden/harris campaign and make sure we are protecting every floridians freedom to be healthy, prosperous, and safe. >> florida state representatives fentrice driscoll and mini timmaraju, thank you both very, very much. ahead, no labels, remember

them? they have made it official. the organization will sit out the 2024 election. this is the weekend. end.

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no labels is ending its effort to run a third party unity ticket now. who saw that coming? >> i feel like this very table. >> they dropped off this week, the a bipartisan group officially announced it was calling off its 2024 ambitions. well, okay, that is oxymoronic.

>> it bears repeating. we have one of the cochairs of notables on and we ask pointed questions about what the path was, what the number was, whether this was a spoiler. they claimed to have very great candidate selections. to me, this means no labels is not picking a candidate, the devin cannady not because they didn't try but because everyone who was eligible who would talk to them wouldn't. to me, that says that they understand the stakes of this election. chris cristi and joe manchin, everyone in between, they are unwilling to do anything that might help elect donald trump. >> there's that. >> that is the highbrow part. >> you are being very hyper. the political truth of it is they didn't want to sacrifice their political future. they did not want to take that leap and actually try to galvanize. no labels, to its credit, did get on 22 around the country, 22 states. so, but the idea, for me, in

those 22 states with tell me which one you would win and when you can't, as a political organization, tell me where you are going to win, you are not winning. you are not going to play effectively and that realization was something they refused to acknowledge. the kept trying to get candidates to come in to make it happen. if i get a chris cristi and a joe manchin as the ticket, then the rest of it is going to come. we treat the thing with them as opposed to creating the thing and having them come into it. that, in politics, is a very difficult thing to do, which they have proven once again. >> what you're talking about is coalition building. it is fascinating, all of this. we talk a lot in the media and otherwise about the double heaters, the voters who don't like biden, they don't like trump and we are all like oh

no, what are they going to do? not only are those folks not forming into a cohesive coalition but the people trying to get someone to represent them can't even find someone to present that supposed coalition. obviously, those are important voters but it suggests this early point that maybe they don't like either but they will still pick one or the other. >> it is a binary process. >> joe biden and donald trump were present at the two major political parties in this country, they will be on the ballot, those are your choices and your choice is between joe biden, someone who is going to defend your freedoms, your ability to make decisions about your body, is going to help you build some bridges, is going to give relief to baltimore where they need it and joe biden is a good man. then there is donald trump, someone who is promising american carnage. >> american carnage. and he wants to be a dictator. they go. >> just for one day. >> you are watching the weekend, only on msnbc. coming up at the top of the hour, ali velshi will be here. she will be joined by texas

congresswoman jasmine crockett and minnesota senator tina smith to discuss 220 2400, donald trump and the efforts to ban abortion across the country. we will be right back. back. ev. treat and prevent, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. relief is possible. talk to a doctor about nurtec odt. are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com

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“price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. will you will want to watch us tomorrow acting labor secretary wilderness at the table to discuss the march job numbers the blue past expectations tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. eastern. follow us on social media at the weekend msnbc. a big thanks to alicia for joining us at the table. and "velshi" starts now .